Normativa Calidad Vapor Sbrecalentado a Turbinas

9 años 3 meses antes #19452 por pelin
Hola a todos, espero podais ayudarme, necesito saber que normativa se aplica a la caidad de vapor sobrecalentado suministrado a las turbinas de vapor....estoy buscado asme, api, une...lo que sea....

Gracias a todos de antemano

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    9 años 2 meses antes #19557 por Lobo
    Especifica la presion de operacin y los gados de sobrecalentamiento del vapor.
    Saludos

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    9 años 2 meses antes #19558 por Lobo
    Espero leas el ingles
    An organization called the ABMA ( American Boiler mf'rs Association) publishes a standard detailing boiler water and steam quality.

    see page 4 of this .pdf:

    www.esitenn.com/news/newsletter/issue18.pdf

    Also see:

    www.cip.ukcentre.com/steam.htm

    Additionally, your CC steam turbine mf'r may have standards that are different or more restrictive.

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    9 años 2 meses antes #19559 por Lobo

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    9 años 2 meses antes #19576 por Lobo
    )
    20 Feb 04 23:17
    a) You can consult the standard VGB R 450 L (German, www.vgb.org ) for information on Boiler feed water, Boiler water and steam characteristics.

    b) ASME has information ( members.asme.org/catalog/ItemView.cfm?ItemNumber ...) which perhaps is interesting for you.

    Please be aware that the German recommendations (higher requirements) are different than the ASME recomendations.

    When you measure specific conductivity you will measure all ions contained in the water. Cation conductivity is measured after a cation ion exchanger

    RGS
    GBENARD (Specifier/Regul)
    23 Feb 04 14:36
    Hello,
    There is a reference for us which has to be amended according to your plant conditions and the discussions you should have with your boiler and turbine manufacturers. It comes from EPRI and is the counterpart of CS 4629 which is talking about fossil fired plants.

    Interim Cycle Chemistry Guidelines for Combined Cycle Heat Recovery Steam Generators (HRSGs)
    TR-110051 - 01/28/1998 - 04T079.0.

    This is "giving" to you recommendations for water and steam quality in the different nodes, as well as rationales for this, for a CCGT. The only problem is that they are pricing that 12000 USD. Otherwise, you should just follow GE recommandations, they are just following that standard. (you should also have a look on "Steam" from B&W).
    iei9596 (Chemical)
    25 Feb 04 23:27
    Hi,
    I hope this will help you

    TO ASSURE GOOD QUALITY OF STEAM. S. NO BOILER PRESSURE(PSIG) TOTAL DISSOLVED(TDS) ALKALINITY(PPM) SILICA(PPM)
    01 0-300 3500 700 125
    02 301-450 3000 600 90
    03 451-600 2500 500 50
    04 601-750 2000 400 35
    05 751-900 1500 300 20
    06 901-100 1250 250 8
    07 1001-1500 1000 200 2.5
    08 1501-2000 750 150 1.0
    09 ABOVE 2000 500 100 0.5
    ALWAYS KEEP WATER PARAMETERS UNDER LIMITSGET MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY INCREASE YOUR PROFITS
    TO ASSURE GOOD QUALITY OF STEAM. S. NO BOILER PRESSURE(PSIG) TOTAL DISSOLVED(TDS) ALKALINITY(PPM) SILICA(PPM)
    01 0-300 3500 700 125
    02 301-450 3000 600 90
    03 451-600 2500 500 50
    04 601-750 2000 400 35
    05 751-900 1500 300 20
    06 901-100 1250 250 8
    07 1001-1500 1000 200 2.5
    08 1501-2000 750 150 1.0
    09 ABOVE 2000 500 100 0.5
    ALWAYS KEEP WATER PARAMETERS UNDER LIMITSGET MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY INCREASE YOUR PROFITS



    RECOMMENDED ABMA & ASME BOILER WATER LIMITS DRUM OPERATING PRESSURE (psig)
    0-300 301-450 451-600 601-750 751-900 901-1000 1001-1500 1501-2000 OTSG
    STEAM
    TDS max (ppm) 0.2-1.0 0.2-1.0 0.2-1.0 0.1-0.5 0.1-0.5 0.1-0.5 0.1 0.1 0.05
    BOILER WATER
    TDS max (ppm) 700-3500 600-3000 500-2500 200-1000 150-750 125-625 100 50 0.05
    ALK. max (ppm) 350 300 250 200 150 100 Not specified Not specified n/a
    TSS Max (ppm) 15 10 8 3 2 1 1 n/a n/a
    Conductivity max (µmho/cm) 1100-5400 900-4600 800-3800 300-1500 200-1200 200-1000 150 80 0.15-.25
    Silica max (ppm SiO2) 150 90 40 30 20 8 2 1 0.02
    FEED-WATER (CONDENSATE & MAKEUP, AFTER DEAERATOR)
    Dissolved Oxygen (ppm O2) 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 Not sensitive
    Total Iron (ppm Fe) 0.1 0.05 0.03 0.025 0.02 0.02 0.01 0.01 0.01
    Total Copper (ppm Cu) 0.05 0.025 0.02 0.02 0.015 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.002
    Total Hardness (ppm CaCO3) 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.05 None detected None detected None detected
    pH @ 25º C 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.8-9.6 8.8-9.6 8.8-9.6
    Nonvolatile TOC (ppm C) 1 1 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2 None detected
    Oily Matter (ppm) 1 1 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2
    MAKE-UP AT 0.5% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 11.4 9.8 8.1 6.5 4.9 3.3 0.5 0.3
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 0.75 0.45 0.2 0.15 0.1 0.04 0.01 0.005
    MAKE-UP AT 1% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 22.8 19.5 16.3 13 9.8 6.5 1 0.7
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 1.5 0.9 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.08 0.02 0.01
    MAKE-UP AT 2% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 45.5 39 32.5 26 19.5 13 2 1.3
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 3 1.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.16 0.04 0.02
    MAKE-UP AT 3% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 68.3 58.5 48.8 39 29.3 19.5 3 2
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 4.5 2.7 1.2 0.9 0.6 0.24 0.06 0.03


    EMKWR (Chemical)
    1 Mar 04 11:02
    Fred,

    to get a proper idea about the conditioning regime, you first have to tell more about the type of boiler (pressure, temperature, what materials is the boiler including the condensor made of etc.). Then of course there is the question which quality of water you produce in your demin plant (take care of silicate, chloride, TOC etc).
    There are several regimes available to choose from. You can use simply ammonium as conditioning agent (all volatile treatment), or if you have an extremely good quality water you can use combined treatment (oxygen and ammonium) or even oxygen treatment.

    Take one advise from me, avoid organic amines. These will decompose in organic acids which will return in the first condensate on your turbine blades.

    My company (KEMA) has issued its own guidelines for water/steam conditioning. The requirements are even higher than the German (VGB) ones but they have resulted in an extremely low number of problems in the Dutch power plants.

    If you want more information, just ask.

    Best regards,

    Edwin

    Edwin Muller
    KEMA Power Generation & Sustainables
    Arnhem, The Netherlands
    E-mail Esta dirección de correo electrónico está siendo protegida contra los robots de spam. Necesita tener JavaScript habilitado para poder verlo.
    Internet: www.kema-water.nl
    www.kema.com

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    9 años 2 meses antes #19577 por Lobo
    )
    20 Feb 04 23:17
    a) You can consult the standard VGB R 450 L (German, www.vgb.org ) for information on Boiler feed water, Boiler water and steam characteristics.

    b) ASME has information ( members.asme.org/catalog/ItemView.cfm?ItemNumber ...) which perhaps is interesting for you.

    Please be aware that the German recommendations (higher requirements) are different than the ASME recomendations.

    When you measure specific conductivity you will measure all ions contained in the water. Cation conductivity is measured after a cation ion exchanger

    RGS
    GBENARD (Specifier/Regul)
    23 Feb 04 14:36
    Hello,
    There is a reference for us which has to be amended according to your plant conditions and the discussions you should have with your boiler and turbine manufacturers. It comes from EPRI and is the counterpart of CS 4629 which is talking about fossil fired plants.

    Interim Cycle Chemistry Guidelines for Combined Cycle Heat Recovery Steam Generators (HRSGs)
    TR-110051 - 01/28/1998 - 04T079.0.

    This is "giving" to you recommendations for water and steam quality in the different nodes, as well as rationales for this, for a CCGT. The only problem is that they are pricing that 12000 USD. Otherwise, you should just follow GE recommandations, they are just following that standard. (you should also have a look on "Steam" from B&W).
    iei9596 (Chemical)
    25 Feb 04 23:27
    Hi,
    I hope this will help you

    TO ASSURE GOOD QUALITY OF STEAM. S. NO BOILER PRESSURE(PSIG) TOTAL DISSOLVED(TDS) ALKALINITY(PPM) SILICA(PPM)
    01 0-300 3500 700 125
    02 301-450 3000 600 90
    03 451-600 2500 500 50
    04 601-750 2000 400 35
    05 751-900 1500 300 20
    06 901-100 1250 250 8
    07 1001-1500 1000 200 2.5
    08 1501-2000 750 150 1.0
    09 ABOVE 2000 500 100 0.5
    ALWAYS KEEP WATER PARAMETERS UNDER LIMITSGET MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY INCREASE YOUR PROFITS
    TO ASSURE GOOD QUALITY OF STEAM. S. NO BOILER PRESSURE(PSIG) TOTAL DISSOLVED(TDS) ALKALINITY(PPM) SILICA(PPM)
    01 0-300 3500 700 125
    02 301-450 3000 600 90
    03 451-600 2500 500 50
    04 601-750 2000 400 35
    05 751-900 1500 300 20
    06 901-100 1250 250 8
    07 1001-1500 1000 200 2.5
    08 1501-2000 750 150 1.0
    09 ABOVE 2000 500 100 0.5
    ALWAYS KEEP WATER PARAMETERS UNDER LIMITSGET MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY INCREASE YOUR PROFITS



    RECOMMENDED ABMA & ASME BOILER WATER LIMITS DRUM OPERATING PRESSURE (psig)
    0-300 301-450 451-600 601-750 751-900 901-1000 1001-1500 1501-2000 OTSG
    STEAM
    TDS max (ppm) 0.2-1.0 0.2-1.0 0.2-1.0 0.1-0.5 0.1-0.5 0.1-0.5 0.1 0.1 0.05
    BOILER WATER
    TDS max (ppm) 700-3500 600-3000 500-2500 200-1000 150-750 125-625 100 50 0.05
    ALK. max (ppm) 350 300 250 200 150 100 Not specified Not specified n/a
    TSS Max (ppm) 15 10 8 3 2 1 1 n/a n/a
    Conductivity max (µmho/cm) 1100-5400 900-4600 800-3800 300-1500 200-1200 200-1000 150 80 0.15-.25
    Silica max (ppm SiO2) 150 90 40 30 20 8 2 1 0.02
    FEED-WATER (CONDENSATE & MAKEUP, AFTER DEAERATOR)
    Dissolved Oxygen (ppm O2) 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 Not sensitive
    Total Iron (ppm Fe) 0.1 0.05 0.03 0.025 0.02 0.02 0.01 0.01 0.01
    Total Copper (ppm Cu) 0.05 0.025 0.02 0.02 0.015 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.002
    Total Hardness (ppm CaCO3) 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.05 None detected None detected None detected
    pH @ 25º C 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.3-10.0 8.8-9.6 8.8-9.6 8.8-9.6
    Nonvolatile TOC (ppm C) 1 1 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2 None detected
    Oily Matter (ppm) 1 1 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2
    MAKE-UP AT 0.5% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 11.4 9.8 8.1 6.5 4.9 3.3 0.5 0.3
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 0.75 0.45 0.2 0.15 0.1 0.04 0.01 0.005
    MAKE-UP AT 1% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 22.8 19.5 16.3 13 9.8 6.5 1 0.7
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 1.5 0.9 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.08 0.02 0.01
    MAKE-UP AT 2% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 45.5 39 32.5 26 19.5 13 2 1.3
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 3 1.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.16 0.04 0.02
    MAKE-UP AT 3% BLOWDOWN
    TDS 68.3 58.5 48.8 39 29.3 19.5 3 2
    Silica (ppm SiO2) 4.5 2.7 1.2 0.9 0.6 0.24 0.06 0.03


    EMKWR (Chemical)
    1 Mar 04 11:02
    Fred,

    to get a proper idea about the conditioning regime, you first have to tell more about the type of boiler (pressure, temperature, what materials is the boiler including the condensor made of etc.). Then of course there is the question which quality of water you produce in your demin plant (take care of silicate, chloride, TOC etc).
    There are several regimes available to choose from. You can use simply ammonium as conditioning agent (all volatile treatment), or if you have an extremely good quality water you can use combined treatment (oxygen and ammonium) or even oxygen treatment.

    Take one advise from me, avoid organic amines. These will decompose in organic acids which will return in the first condensate on your turbine blades.

    My company (KEMA) has issued its own guidelines for water/steam conditioning. The requirements are even higher than the German (VGB) ones but they have resulted in an extremely low number of problems in the Dutch power plants.

    If you want more information, just ask.

    Best regards,

    Edwin

    Edwin Muller
    KEMA Power Generation & Sustainables
    Arnhem, The Netherlands
    E-mail Esta dirección de correo electrónico está siendo protegida contra los robots de spam. Necesita tener JavaScript habilitado para poder verlo.
    Internet: www.kema-water.nl
    www.kema.com

  • Perry
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    2 años 3 meses antes #25225 por Lobo
    Pelin
    información en ingles

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